As tax day nears it strikes me that many of the same people who condemn "tax loopholes" and would gladly throw tax evaders in jail are some of the same people who are quick to defend and excuse illegal immigrants. They say illegal immigrants are "just trying to make a better life" and so forth, but we have a word for people who try to improve their lives by breaking the law: criminals. Illegal immigrants and tax evaders steal money from the same pot, and both groups are just trying to improve their lot in life by their own reckoning. In the process, they hurt everyone who plays by the rules.
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I don't know if you enjoy Ann or not, but here she is:
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/anncoulter/2006/04/12/193544.html
One exerpt from her that I enjoyed:
This is the only country on Earth that thinks it's not sporting to consider our own interests in choosing immigrants. Try showing up in any other country on the planet, illiterate and penniless, and announcing: "I've seen pictures of your country and it looks great. I think I'd like to live here! Oh, and by the way, would you mind changing all your government and business phone messages, street signs and ballots into my native language? Thanks!" They would laugh you out of the country.
What seems not to have occurred to the "NO HUMAN BEING IS ILLEGAL" crowd is that this is a country, not a public park.
According to the government, those people who buy pot are helping terrorists. The thinking goes that the money one spends on buying drugs goes from drug dealer on the street, to his supplier, to growers, to terrorist groups that make drugs to fund their respective causes.
By this logic, anyone who has eaten American-grown farm products are aiding and abetting the illegals. People like me pay more to buy organic produce because we are willing to put our money where our mouths are (so to speak) with regards to GMO products. There are enough people like me such that there is an active and healthy market for organic produce. The lack of availability of "no illegal immigrant produced" farm products suggests that no market for this exists.
Dallas..there are some people who support legal status for illegal immigrants out of compassion. However, I think much of the support for giving people status comes from people like me who look at it as a practical matter. You can't stop them from coming, there is a demand for their services, and everyone in this country (or atleast those that eat) has ultimately been a beneficiary of their labour. We tried to stop alcohol from coming into this country at one time too, and it didn't work.
Manish: Your first argument makes sense. I never had the urge to buy pot, but the prospect of putting money in the hands of criminals or terrorists is a good reason not to.
Why would you think that? The market probably would exist if the marketing claim could be verified. The reason it does not exist is because the status of farm workers is currently unobservable. In general, I think Americans are willing to pay to enforce laws, even if we disagree on some of the laws.
Your third argument is incoherent. Illegal immigrants are not analogous to alcohol. Alcohol can be manufactured almost anywhere. Non-citizens can only be born outside the US. Furthermore, it is possible to stop them from coming across the border. The reason they come across alive is because the political climate allows it. In fact, they should be thankful that there are no plans to kill them the minute they step across the line, because if that is what our military were instructed to do, then they would do it.
As a practical matter: American culture needs to be protected and cherished in America ABOVE that of other nations and peoples. It is simply a matter of survival. I give you France as exibit A. In my mind, the issue isn't the person, it's their attitude. A (US) flag waving, tax paying, contributing member of society who is enrolled in an english class gets my compassion and maybe even a donation from me if they're struggling.
The thieving lot who waves mexican flags in my streets can hit the road.
David...much alcohol during prohibition (as well as drugs today) are/were manufactured in other countries and brought into the U.S. and we have had little ability to stop it. There certainly were large busts, but it didn't stop the flow.
DD:The market probably would exist if the marketing claim could be verified. The reason it does not exist is because the status of farm workers is currently unobservable.
Me:It's verifiable in a whole host of different ways. One could hire a reputable firm (i.e. perhaps a big 5 accounting firm) to verify that all of its workers had the proper documents. Retailers with brand recognition like Walmart or Kroeger could audit the workforce of its suppliers to verify that they are legal much in the same way that some of these firms have auditors to ensure that their overseas suppliers aren't running sweat shops.
Manish: I think you're bluffing. With large numbers of people already engaged in protecting illegal aliens, I don't believe that a bunch of accountants could verify anything. Maybe with the help of the FBI... maybe with national ID cards... maybe at an enormous cost...
Nonetheless, some companies do make the claim "no illegal labor", regardless of whether an auditor is involved.
The point is that the labels "no illegal labor", "no fat", and "no MSG" all have a positive dollar value in some American markets. The argument that no market exists for any item or label is practically indefensible, and you should stop trying if you are a practical fellow.
I can't give you ground on the drugs and alcohol argument either. It is much harder to conceal people than it is to conceal inanimate substances. And, once it gets here, alcohol doesn't wave flags and consume health services...
DD: I think you're bluffing.
Why? When I started my current (and every other) job, I had to fill out an I9 to verify that I had the legal right to work at that employer and show documentation to that effect. It would be just a matter of an outsider verifying that this paper work was filled out and done so properly with proper documentation..how difficult do you really think this would be?
DD: some companies do make the claim "no illegal labor"
Haven't seen this on any mass scale, but I'll take your word for it that it happens on a micro-scale.
DD: It is much harder to conceal people than it is to conceal inanimate substances.
Perhaps if you are talking about a dime-bag of pot then yes. However, drugs are smuggled into this country in vast quantities..literally by the ton.
A container ship can just as easily have finsihed goods from China as it could have cocaine or hundreds of illegal aliens.
DD: And, once it gets here, alcohol doesn't wave flags and consume health services...
Nor does alcohol pick lettuce, clean hotel rooms, do construction work or bring any other food item to your table. And this is the ultimate problem with your argument..you know what your against, but you don't know what you are for other than vague promises to be willing to pay more for agricultural products and fealty that the free market will find a way out..without acknowledging that its the free market that brought them here to begin with.
... What I meant to say is that, in general, it is hard to prove that no market exists for a given item or label.
Manish: I have not been trying to state my positions on these issues. I just like to pick on bloggers when I get bored at work.
Your positions show that you do not have a criminal mind. That's great. Just don't go into law enforcement or border security.
Manish: I don't see why getting rid of illegal immigrants would necessarily increase agriculture costs. The federal government is already paying subsidies to farmers to not grow food and enforcing tariffs to keep prices artificially high. If we get rid of the illegal immigrants, perhaps the subsidies and tariffs wouldn't be "necessary" to maintain the high prices we've already got.
MW: Its been a somewhat common talking point that some people have expressed a willingness to pay more for agricultural products if they were harvested by American citizens. The logic (used by conservatives and liberals alike) is that if farmers were willing to pay higher wages, Americans would be willing to take those jobs that are currently filled by illegal immigrants. Its not that Americans won't do those jobs, its that they won't do those jobs at those wages.
As to paying farmers not to grow and tariffs, this is a bigger issue and has to do with the political clout of farmers more than anything else. I don't see these things going away anytime soon regardless of whats done with illegal immigration. (I remember reading Lee Iacocca's book a while back where he said that his father received money from the government to not grow during the depression...he also mentioned that the government today gave billions to farmers not to grow and billions more to farmers to grow..kind of messed up, ought to be fixed but probably never will.)