Former Representative Bob Williams points out that state and local governments control the first-responders, and that Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin bear most of the blame for the debacle following hurricane Katrina.
Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible--local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin.The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his emergency operations center.
The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.
FEMA hasn't been flawless, but it should be clear to any thinking person that most of the blame for the deaths around New Orleans belongs to Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin.
MW: "but it should be clear to any thinking person that most of the blame for the deaths around New Orleans belongs to Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin."
There are three main groups of people who share in the culpability here: President Bush and the Federal Government (including the DHS and FEMA), state and local officials (including Nagin and Blanco), and the people who chose to remain in New Orleans despite the warnings given. It was a mess from top to bottom, period.
This isn't about "most" or "little" as far as blame goes... it's about "some".
Mark, this may be the first time I have agreed with every word of a comment. Well done!
RA: Neat, thanks. I'll mark it on the calendar. :)
and what about the people that chose to stay? yeah, yeah, they were poor or they couldn't get out. if they had really wanted out many of them could have found a way. also there was the choice to live in a city below sea level in the first place. when we bought our house we considered flooding risks and past hot spots for tornados in the area. why must all the responsibility belong to some gov. agency. really, if you were in a situation would you run to the "dome" for protection after what we have just witnessed? not me. i want to make the decisions reguarding my safety and not be locked up in some building with a mob gone wild and unable to get out because my "protectors" won't let me out. that is how the gov. operates and some want to blame them which encourages them to take more control over my life decisions. i blame the individuals that could have prepared for the hurricane but failed to do so.
william: No one is saying that "all the responsibility belongs to some government agency". Each of the three groups I mentioned earlier has their roles to play; the federal and state/local governments are supposed to help and protect citizens... and the citizens themselves are supposed to take ultimate responsibility for their own well-being. Everyone didn't play their roles adequately... and that's the issue.
Mark: Well yes, I never said local officials bear all the blame, only most. Maybe even more than the people themselves, since resources weren't utilized very well to evacuate those who couldn't move themselves.
Pretty much I'm with Michael, the investigation is going to show that the biggest problem with this whole even was soon to be ex-Governor Blanco.
The first thing is that primary responsiblity for disaster response and control of the Lousiana National guard lay at the feet of the Local & State authorities and the Fed can only help when asked (a problem that occured in the California firestorms where local & state resources had to be expended before a formal request fro Federal assistance).
Of course you could ignore that Bush began to address the problem on the 27th when he declared a state of emergency. Or on the Sunday before where "he readied the federal government for a massive relief effort, on Sunday urged people in the path of Hurricane Katrina to forget anything but their safety and move to higher ground as instructed," and "the president made sure the federal response would not be delayed by already declaring emergencies in Mississippi and Florida just hours after a similar declaration for Louisiana. Such declarations make federal aid available to assist with disaster relief, but they are rarely made before a storm even hits." Of course he really did nothing. FEMA carrying out the mission, well thats a whole nother problem.
But lets continue..
According to Major Garrett, the State (Louisiana Department of Homeland Security) turned the Red Cross away from the Superdome and refused to let them bring in food, water and other supplies to the people trapped there. So, at the very moment that Ray Nagin, the Mayor of New Orleans was screaming where's the food, where's the water, it was over the overpass, and state officials were saying you can't come in.
She moved on to withold the Louisana National Guard from helping the New Orleans Police Department and State Officals prevented repairmen, who were authorized by the New Orleans Police Department, from entering the city to repair the police radio network to allow communication to occur.
Then she procedes to undermine Nagin's declaration that everyone must get out of town, even if the have to be forced when she said she will not provide support to the Mayor to evacuate the city.
But other than that Blanco really had a minor role in making the disaster worse and it is all Bush's fault.
You may also want to take note, over the past 5 years, Louisiana leads the country with $1.9 Billion in Federal money earmarked for Army Corps programs, far ahead of the #2 recipiant California at less than $1.4 billion and 7 times the population. Overall the last 5 years of funding requests by the Bush Administration have exceeded the funding made by the Clinton Adminstration for key flood control measures in Lousiana for its last 5 years. I hardly call that cutting funding to the region. Of course the funding was overshadowed by the local authorites diverting the funds into questionable programs. So there we are back in the local & state authorities who have the notorious reputation for being corrupt.
Consider the following timelines:
One from a left-wing site: ThinkProgress
... and one from a right-wing site: Right-wing Nuthouse
MW: No, state/local officials don't even deserve "most" of the blame.
As I said, this isn't about "most"... it's about "some".
Mark: Well, I think it's useful to say "most", because I think they should all lose their jobs. But hey, it's up to the Louisiana voters, not me!
MW: If Nagin and Blanco should lose their jobs, so too should Chertoff and Brown at the DHS and FEMA, respectively.
Chertoff said that no one anticipated the levees breaking. That's bullshit. They were warned that a Category 4 hurricane could break the levees.
Brown didn't realize people were being put in the Convention Center... when anyone who was watching the news knew that long before he said he found out.
... and those are just two examples of those two people screwing up.
I like how the Pirate uses all the facts available to prove the Locals are mainly culpable, and everyone ignores him.
I like how I provided links to two timelines of what happened... timelines that point out the errors of BOTH the federal government (and its agencies) and state/local officials... refuting the claims by most conservatives that state/local officials bear "most" or "all" of the blame... and everyone ignores me.
"Chertoff said that no one anticipated the levees breaking. That's bullshit. They were warned that a Category 4 hurricane could break the levees."
I'm calling BULL on that comment
“Coastal storm surge flooding of 18 to 22 feet above normal tide levels, locally as high as 28 feet, along with large and dangerous battering waves can be expected near and to the east of where the center makes landfall,” according to National Hurricane Center forecaster Richard Pasch.
“Some levees in the Greater New Orleans area could be overtopped,” he said.
"We were briefing them way before landfall," Mayfield said. "It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped."
Chertoff told reporters Saturday that government officials had not expected the damaging combination of a powerful hurricane levee breaches that flooded New Orleans.
I pulled the references from the Think progress timeline (even though quite dishonestly they inter changed the words topped and failure with falure and break to make it seem more apparent a break was predicted, when none of the articles they cited really did predict the break. They were advised the hurricane's storm surge would top the levees, meaning the level of water would be higher than the levees, it does not mention that the leeves would completely fail as they did after the strom. yes the levees did top, but the major damage was caused by the break in the levee.
I like how almost everyone's response to this disaster seems to be to place the blame with and demonstrate the incompetence of those that they disagree with on issues ranging from welfare to Iraq and absolve those that they agree with on those issues (and more, of course) of responsibility.
RA: Do you include me in that "almost everyone" list?
tP: Oh, I see... so since no one anticipated the levees would fail, or went into this with the mindset that the levees *could* fail, we're supposed to absolve Chertoff? Okay... shouldn't we then absolve state/local officials if their delays or decisions were based on this belief that the levees wouldn't fail? No? Then Chertoff should be held accountable as well.
Mark: You're kind of hard to ignore, no mard how much we all try.
Sorry, but the Pirate's got your number on this one. I too looked at the timelines. The first timeline, ThinkProgress, simply illustrates the local government's failure. The reason we're discussing the Blaming Game going on right now is because wackos like Deanie Weenie and Hillary and Mayor Nagin started throwing crap at the fan. Now it's hit the fan, and all bets are off.
While the ThinkProgess timeline vainly attempted to categorize Bush as a lackadaisical, incompetent leader in a time of crisis, it just put a mirror up to its own irrationality. Of course the President is going to go about his daily business of meeting with people all over the country; he's not the nanny for every city. The local officials in NO should have done their job.
The timeline from the Right is, well, right. Local officials failed their constituents miserably, but then again, the local officials are all Democrats. So what do Democrats do when they fail? Blame it all on racism and the Right.
True, both sites provide different sides of the argument, but only one is indeed accurate.
By attempting to rise above the debate by presenting both timelines, you have simply supported our argument that it is the local officials' fault. There's no two ways about it (unless you're a Democrat/Independent >>which means you don't have a stance).
No Mark you were calling Chertoff a liar, when infact based on published news reports he was not lying about what he knew. you are moving the goals posts, first you claim he was told they would fail, when presented with evidence showing he was not told that, all of the sudden its still his fault even if he wasn't told. Then you move on to say that because Chertoff wasn't told the levees would fail the state and locals bear no burden. Thats a strech. Why because they still knew they would be topped and there was a big ass hurricane coming down on them!
In addition the local officals plans were not only based on the levees failing they were based on a big ass hurricane approaching the city and if the disater plan laid out by the City of New Orleans had been followed by the City of New Orleans a lot fewer people would of been left behind or killed. There also wouldn't be sumurged School buses sitting there when the plan specifically called for those to be used to evacuate anyone who couldn't do it on their own or who did not have transportation.
FEMA has its own problems (some generated by themselves, some generated by local officals and some generated by the Constitution) in supporting the relief effort. However the break down in the evacuation and first responder's response is at the hands of the State and Local officals, because it is their responsibility to deal with it first.
Mark: You're not included at all.
DD: Perhaps you missed this opinion at the bottom of the Right Wing Nuthouse timeline: "This has been a clusterf**k from the get go on all levels". Note that he/she doesn't say "mostly local officials" or "it's all the Fed's fault"... which is what I've been trying to say on here for quite some time.
If all everyone did was read your reaction, The Pirate's reaction, and MW's reaction they'd come away with a very skewed outlook on who messed up.
Both timelines show the mistakes made at all levels of government. You cannot talk about the mistakes of one unless you mention the mistakes of others... if you want to be accurate.
tP said: "Then you move on to say that because Chertoff wasn't told the levees would fail the state and locals bear no burden. Thats a strech. Why because they still knew they would be topped and there was a big ass hurricane coming down on them!"
That last sentence is exactly my point. Chertoff, too, knew that the levees would be topped. If state/local officials bear some of the burden, so too does Chertoff and FEMA director Brown. I don't know about you, but if I'm the head of DHS or FEMA... and there's a hurricane coming that will likely top the levees... I wouldn't claim to be totally surprised that the levees would fail. Failure of any man-made structure is ALWAYS a possibility in a natural disaster.
Federal agencies like DHS and FEMA cannot claim to have not anticipated *this* level of destruction and then expect state/local government to have anticipated it.
As I said, this was a mess... from top (DHS, FEMA) to middle (Nagin, Blanco) to bottom (N.O. residents).
Clarification:
"Note that he/she doesn't say "mostly local officials" or "it's all the Fed's fault"... which is what I've been trying to say on here for quite some time."
Poorly worded. What I've been trying to say is what she said... that this was full of mistakes On All Levels.
See Chertoff wasn't suprised they were topped, he was suprised that they broke. However, he has no authority to manage evacuations unless the Feds are given control by the State or help for evacuations is requested (which was not, in Blanco's own words, she had assumed Nagin was taking care of it, they had a plan after all!). So we get back to people died because they weren't evacuated and that is completely responsibility of the State & Local Officals.
In terms of the response, the NYT sheds a lot of lite on the nature of state-fed relations, the insurrection act and the politcal aspects of the issue. The issue was further compoued by some of the demands made by the Governors office. The coordination of this relief effort falls into FEMA's court, although it has also required the Justice Department to find legal loop-holes.
However, we would not be having all these relief problems with thousands of people stranded in New Orleans if the State and Local Officals had done their jobs.
To be fair I would also throw in the former State and Local Officals from Louisiana (even the ones in jail for corruption) for blowing federal funding for flood control measures on pork.
Here is the NYT article
tP: Not implementing the plans already on the books is the state/local officials part of the problem. Other parts, related to the response, are not necessarily the fault of state/local officials.
Blanco asked Bush to declare a state of emergency at the federal level on August 27th and Bush did so. That puts FEMA and, indirectly, DHS in charge of coordinating relief efforts. Who's responsible for the blunders of FEMA and DHS? State and local officials? Bull.
People died because the state/local officials didn't implement plans they already had. People also died because FEMA and DHS made mistakes as well.
Additionally, from the Right Wing Nuthouse timeline:
"Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation. The President’s call came just prior to the news conference and occurred after the decision had already been made. for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. "
"The Mayor’s office announces at 9:30 AM that RTA (Regional Transit Authority) busses will pick people up at 12 locations throughout the city and take them to shelters – including the Superdome. This is in accordance with both the Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan for the city of New Orleans and The State of Louisiana Emergency Operations Plan Supplement 1B which clearly states that people who cannot be evacuated will be taken to “last resort” shelters such as the Superdome."
"Governor Blanco requests that the President declare an “expected major disaster” for the state of Louisiana under the auspices of the Stafford Act. The declaration is designed to start major relief supplies flowing immediately to the affected area. Revised 9/8
By noon, the city puts its contraflow traffic system in effect so that both sides of major highways will allow for traffic out of the city."
Mark: "Last resort" would imply to me at, at the very least, existing buses had already been used to evacuate whomever they could. One point here is that there were many other options that could have been used before the filling the Superdome, options that were in the plan, and just never pursued by local government.
R. Alex: What strikes me is that the vast majority of political failures in this country come from leftists. It's logical that people who enact incompetant polices that I dislike in other areas would also act incompetantly in emergencies.
Further, despite FEMA's problems, everyone knows not to expect federal help for between 48 and 72 hours. FEMA doesn't have firefighters or policemen, all they can do is help coordinate local forces. When half the New Orleans police force evaporates and the other half starts looting, whose fault is that? You'll note that the NYPD and NYFD performed a lot better under fire... and NY is as blue a city as there is! Difference: republicans in charge. Do the math.
Are all leftists incompetant? No, of course not. But the politics of the left makes it much easier for the incompetants to get into power than the incompetants of the right. This is a problem the left needs to solve, but I don't know if it's possible.
MW: Your statements about leftists being incompetent, political failures being from leftists, etc. are very inaccurate. The root of the inaccuracy is the lack of separation between being a leftist and being incompetent. How sure are you that incompetence and being a leftist are systemic instead of coincidental?
Incompetent people, of either the leftist or rightist variety, float to the top very easily.
Republicans in charge of NY is what made the difference with NYPD and FDNY on 9/11? That's laughable. Giuliani is about as far left in the Republican party as they come.
And if, as you assert, it's easier for incompetent people to get into power on the left than it is on the right... why is Dubya President and not Cheney?
In my estimation, Cheney is much more qualified to be President than Dubya. Cheney actually understands the nuances of the complex issues faced by the Office of the Presidency... and Bush seems to be rather unengaged.
the blame game is pointless, its like blaming adam and eve for even starting the population of the world or noah for surving the great flood only to have mankind wipe itself out. the laws of checks and balances is universal since the the world began and will continue till it ends. man or woman are imperfect in everything they do so don't expect God like miracles from mere mortals.