Public Breastfeeding

One minute you're protesting this, next minute you'll be complaining about the two-dozen men holding a "pee-in" on the other side of town. It is natural, you know.

The thing is, nursing is often the best way to calm a crying baby. So would you rather have a crying baby or a nursing baby? You could say, "No baby at all," but that gets into other problems.

The trouble is that the issue has been confused by some women who use public breastfeeding as a way to offend people. Note in the story that the Starbucks employee asked the woman to cover up with a blanket. So it wasn't really about whether she could breastfeed, but whether she could do so without consideration for others in the store.

There are two extremes, both of which you should avoid:

1) Kids are yucky, and their parents should take them away where they won't inconvenience me at all. This ignores the fact that we were all kids once, and that it's a good thing for people to be raising kids. We should value children, and make allowances for them.

2) If you don't want to see a woman's naked (and usually unattractive) breasts in public, then you're a stuck-up prude who needs to have a lesson in modern hippie morality forced down his throat.

A blessed middle path lies somewhere between these.

BB: Don't get me wrong, I love kids and babies. I just don't really want to see breastfeeding. It's just way overly-intimate.

The problem is that every time a woman does that (and it does depend on HOW its done), it is damn near impossible as a man not to instinctually look at her breasts merely because they are exposed...and this is true in spite of the fact that one is for sure NOT erotically attractive to them at all. It just makes for some real awkward moments. As long as the woman is sensitive to the situation all is cool, but it does seem like some women with many kids (God Bless them) get to a point where they just don't give a damn and sort of ...recklessly...breastfeed with impunity. I'm no prude about it, but I agree with Mike wholeheartedly.

MW: My God, man. Where do you come up with this stuff???

Anyway, my wife choose to breastfeed both of our children. She always made sure that it was a sacred event, and done in private. It is an intimate thing. It has a bonding effect between mother and child.

Breastfeeding in public just for the sake of getting a coffee shop to change their mind and uphold ones "right" to breastfeed in public is not just silly- (total opinion from this point forward)it speaks volumes about one's self-respect, consideration for others (read: self-centerdness), and shows a general lack of common sense.

A woman who just whips it out, as you so elequently put it, Michael, would most likely also be seen in a grocery store with no shoes on, accompanied by kids with dirty faces and crappy diapers.

JP: I come up with it mostly from the links on my sidebar :)

I have to ask for a point of clarification from you, Michael. Are you objecting to all breastfeeding in public, or just uncovered breastfeeding?

The vast majority of people (including myself) find uncovered public breastfeeding improper. However, I'm not opposed to covered public breastfeeding. Babies do get hungry, and there just aren't facilities available for mothers to feed in private. You may notice fewer women breastfeeding publicly at certain locales (for example my church); often this is because this locale offers a mothers' lounge for breastfeeding, with comfortable chairs, a diaper changing station, and a sink for washing. As a man, you will probably never be aware of this lounge, because they are usually located in women's bathrooms. A bathroom without a lounge, however, is a pathetic place to nurse a baby. Often the only place to sit in a bathroom (other than the filthy floor) is on the toilet, and public toilets don't have lids. So asking a woman to breastfeed in the bathroom just won't work, so long as the bathroom lacks a lounge.

You must realize that it takes three times as long to run errands with several children. If we mothers had to stay home to breastfeed, we'd never get any of our errands run.

Women do prefer to breastfeed in private, and most only do it in public out of necessity. Until businesses begin providing lounges for comfortable private breastfeeding, the covered breastfeeding mother is going to be a common sight.

I find it interesting that it's all guys commenting here.

In any case, I've breastfed at church, in museums, friends' homes, etc. No one's given me any trouble about it, but then, I'm in New York City. Also, I was wearing "nursing outfits" at the time, which have slits in the appropriate places, so one isn't lifting up your shirt and whatnot. It does get hot in the summertime trying to breastfeed, but I'm guessing Starbucks is air-conditioned.

Wacky Hermit is right - it's a pain to try to breastfeed in most bathrooms (I've tried breast-pumping in bathrooms, and that's just as bad). Most mothers have a blanket or a burp cloth they can use to cover up, but still, you're usually going to flash a little nipple, even using nursing clothes and blankets, when you try to hook the baby up. And the babies sometimes like to detach themselves without warning. Of course, once the baby is hooked up, there's usually no nipple to see...

Just wondering - how many of you guys have actually seen a woman "whip it out and stuff it in her baby's mouth"? I just don't know about these stories. There's a lot of militant breastfeeding moms who go out of their way to offend people, but also lots of places don't make much of an accomodation to mothers.

I agree with Kodiak - it's natural for men to have an instinctive interest, at least briefly, to "look" when a woman exposes her breast (for any reason, for any length of time).

That said, I've seen plenty of women breastfeeding in public (my wife included) but I can't recall ever seeing anything more than a small bit of skin - they're usually well-covered and discrete. Maybe that's a Southern thing?

All it'll take is a staged 'leer-in' to get these women feel unconfortable ennough to cover up.

They want to do thatin public, fine, they sholdn;t get upset when somebody uses their free speech to say. 'Everybody look! This lady is breastfeeding uncovered and you can sorta see some stuff!' Hold a digital camera while doing his. And drop a comment on the possibility of using the Starbuck's wi-fi to post the pics.

Or would that not be nice.

For the life of me, I can't imagine why breastfeeding makes anyone uncomfortable. I suppose if this were 1960, and exposed breasts weren't common, it might be another matter, but a woman exposing a breast to feed her child is about as sexually stimulating as watching dogs mate.

Meep: My wife is a nurse whose sole job is to teach new mothers to breast feed. So I know an awful lot about this particular topic. But then, like a eunuch in a harem, I've never actually done it.

My wife often complains about the militants, often associated with the La Leche League, giving breastfeeding a bad name. And there are no doubt also plenty of slobs who breastfeed indiscreetly.

But they're the minority. WH is right that nursing mothers often have trouble finding appropriate places to nurse. When you have a nursing baby, it's like seeing the world on a whole new wavelength of light: You learn to spot little side rooms, screens, and alcoves that can give mother and baby a bit of privacy and comfort in which to relax. If a nursing mother visits you, it would be a real courtesy to be sensitive to this peculiar need. When the baby starts to cry, suggest a small room with a comfy chair and a door that closes. Aside from the militants, most mothers don't want you to see them exposed, but with a crying baby they often have bigger things on their minds than your delicate sensibilities.

Meep: a hermit isn't always male...

For those of you who've never tried to accomplish anything with a nursing baby in tow, please don't criticize until you've walked a mile in my shoes. I breastfeed in public all the time, mainly because most places, there ARE no private places to breastfeed (whereas there are private places to pee), and if I had to drive home everytime my child wanted to eat, I would never get anything done. I am sure as @#$% not feeding my baby while sitting on the toilet in a Starbuck's bathroom. That's just gross. That said, I try to be discreet, b/c it's not my intent to offend anyone, so I've perfected the art of nursing in the most out-of-the-way place possible so that you might be able to tell what I'm doing, but you can't see anything unless you sit and stare and wait with laserlike concentration for the nanosecond beween when my son finishes eating and I pull my shirt (which is positioned so as to cover all but the nipple) closed, in which case, you have a problem, not me. If I cover my son's head with a blanket, by the way, he thinks it's a game, stops nursing, and yanks the blanket off, thus exposing me much more than with no blanket at all. So I really try to be considerate, and I've never been hassled, probably because I'm discreet. But if I ever were, I would kindly tell whoever it was where to go. My point is, if you don't know what it's like to be on the other side, please don't be so judgmental. At least think about what you would do and how you would feel in a nursing mom's position before you relegate us (Ivy league-educated lawyers and all) to shuffling barefoot around grocery stores with excrement-laden children. Thanks.

gimmel:

Fair enough.

Don't want to see breast-feeding? What is there to see? I have observed plenty of it around town (here in Seattle, it's common) and I don't see the big deal about the back of a baby's head at or around mom's chest. That's all you see. The mechanics of it all are very subtle and quick: shirt goes up, baby latches on, and in many cases, mom never misses a beat in her conversation.

Methinks you're agonizing over something unnecessarily.

After several email correspondences with the organizer of the "Nurse-Ins at Starbuck's Campaign", Lorig Charkoudian, it has been discovered that the Nurse At Starbuck's is a scam to gain publicity and research. Charkoudian is using the group's website and email to underhandly gain research by not telling people who email her that the correspondence will be, according to Charkoudian, used as "fascinating fodder for a planned book about cultural intolerance of traditional parenting and misogynistic and self-hating (in the case of women who can't come to grips with the basic true function of their breast)attitudes." Charkoudian has also been using the real names of people who correspond with her on television shows and in interviews without notification or protection of the individuals' identities.
If you agree that these tactics are an outrage, PLEASE DO NOT SUPPORT THIS ORGANIZATION!!!!
If you have corresponded with Charkoudian (good or bad correspondence), PLEASE CONTACT A LAWYER IMMEDIATELY TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS!!!

Have you ever tried not looking?!

Ever heard of a BREAST PUMP??? Learn to use one! Not many people want to see this private act in public!

Breast Pump? That's only good for the baby that will actually take a bottle or artificial nipple. Most breast-fed babies don't drink from a bottle. After all, when you have access to such attractive packaging...

What I don't understand is, why is it that it is perfectly acceptable for folks to watch women strut their naked breasts in the media in a sexually provocative manner, yet, when these same breasts are being used for the intended purpose, it is all of a sudden "inappropriate"?

You need to have a reality check...

NM: Uh, I don't want women strutting their breasts in public in any context, sexual or otherwise. Most women aren't exactly "attractive packaging" either.

just another case of IN YOUR FACE. this can be done in some none public place, and if not then perhaps you should plan your trip around the little ones meal time. or is thinking just out of the question? being a parent, breast feeding or not, means things are not as they were. if you just have to have that coffee, buy a pot and make it at home.

Breastfeeding in public:

The saddest thing about most of these comments is that no one really cares about the health of the baby/mother. Guess no one ever thinks that you should stop someone from feeding a bottle to a baby. If more women did whip it out, you would not think anything about it. Or is it just maybe you have seen so much pornography that you cannot see a breast without thinking it is sexual? I am sure you guys don't object to the young teens/twenty-somethings that are falling out of their blousesi in the coffee shop while you sip. Oh, but wait, no one is getting to suck on that breast, just oogle it. So please get over being jealous of a baby, and be thankful that there are a few women still breastfeeding. Because they will use up fewer of your healthcare dollars, probably have a parent bond with their child that will prevent all sorts of unwanted social behaviors, and make some more smarter folks to eventually contribute to your coffee drinking country. We are all mammals and we feed our infants milk from other mammals. Maybe someone should also look at the department of agriculture and why they supply formula (articifical baby milk) to poor women. Could it be that there is there a surplus of milk products? Anyone out there getting WIC? Why is most of it milk products, instead of fruits and vegetables? What is the problem men? Who is messed up here? May I please start some legislation about halter tops being worn in the mall and seeing all those breasts? Am I jealous of those women? No, I have a great set that look fabulous and they were used as they were intended. And about that coffee, guess only the non-breastfeeding women and men can drink it inside the store, right? The next time you want to cup, why don't you drink it at home or in the bathroom? And finally, no the poorest, dirtiest women that I observe are always the ones feeding formula and they never breastfed and they are the ones with many, many children who are unattended and are whining and crying. The breastfed baby is safely attached to its mommy, the way it should be. So sorry that you did not get the same as an infant. Perhaps you can be supportive of the mother of your baby in this way, since we all want what is best for our children.
Thank you for reading my less than popular posting. Good health to all.

PJ: I have no idea what you're talking about. No one cares about the health of the baby and mother? What's that got to do with anything? I think breastfeeding is great, just do it at home.

pj, it's called modesty. i know it's hard for you to believe but not everything that goes thru a guys mind is sexual in nature. as far as the coffee, actually i don't drink it. but if i were a female and had a baby, i would not be feeding it in public. nor would i be wearing many of the cloths i see teens wearing today. perhaps i haven't seen enough porn to numb my brain to the point that being naked in front of total strangers does not bother my, have you? again it's just more "in your face" by people who want to push their low moral standards on the rest of us. or maybe they just need the attention.

Dang it I can believe how much of a bunch of babies everyone is about this.
For one thing, babies are hungry whenever they get hungry. There is no planing your damn trips and errands around when they are going to be hungry. there is no self control when it comes to babies, you cant sweetly ask a 4 month old to wait till you get to the car. YOu can however let them scream bloody murder until they scream themselves to sleep. Anyone want to sit in starbucks sipping your damn 4 dollar half caf caramel latte with whipped cream trying to read Grisham while an angry baby screams at the top of its lungs with no end in sight? I didnt think so, so until you can make posessing a baby in public illegal you may as well let the nutty lady try to feed her child.

You wouldnt be feeding in public huh, at all? unfortunatly every place other than your double wide mobile home is public. Every street every sidewalk every store. So here is your choice, have your unborn fetus aborted waaaay before this becomes a problem(probably the right answer seeing that ignorant people shouldnt be allowed to breed) or plant your butt on the sofa at home and plan to stay there for several months.
Wait, bottle feed you say, oh sure sacrifice the health of your firstborn just so you can cruise the mall without having to perform on of the most common tasks since dawn of time? You are probably the same sort of cheap selfish bastards that feeds your kids generic cereal and peanut butter and puts generic toilet paper in their bathroom so that you can afford to keep yourself in name brand Reboks and Marlboros by the case.
Well you think the nutty lady needs to pump at home and feed later? ok fine, but to be fair from now on all you fat asses get to eat your pizzas and steaks and whoppers only after they have been toted around town in a bag in the back seat of a minivan for three hours.

How can you possibly be serious about this "problem"? Are there that many women out there trying to nurse in your personal space? Are they nursing AT YOU? Are you gasping and recoiling from one minutely exposed breast only to stumble headlong into another slightly open shirt covered by a babies head? Calling this a serious problem is about the same as calling the occasional nude bum running thru the streets of downtown whereverville an epidemic. SOMETIMES it happens and you may notice it. SOMETIMES a baby pulls off to look around and may flash someone. SOMETIMES a large breasted woman may show some skin around the edges. You wouldnt actually see any of this if you werent actively looking. There is no need to study the situation to tell what is going on. If by rare chance you come across a nursing mother who gets turned on by flashing others, go sit next to her, I would wager that you need a date more than I do anyway.

Ed

Only mothers who have breastfed understand how often a breastfed child needs and/or wants to eat. Unlike formula (which is harder to digest), breastmilk is completely digested in 2 hours which means baby is hungry sooner than that. Imagine if you weren't allowed to eat unless you were at home. Imagine if you were hungry every hour or so. How would you function? Should a nursing mother, who is giving her child the best nutrition that child could ask for, be imprisoned in her home because YOUR ignorance makes you feel "icky" about seeing a sliver of her breast? I breastfed my son at the mall, the department store, the grocery store, the bank: you name it, I nursed there. And I would say 99% of the time, no one even noticed. And if they did, they didn't say anything. They'd have gotten an earful if they did. People should be more offended by women choosing to dump chemical cow or soy based crap down their child's throat. Ugh... I breastfed for 10 months, and I hope with the child I'm carrying now to go even longer. Breastfeeding is not disgusting...it's like breathing...your baby's gotta do it to live...a breast is not a sex toy, if you can't help looking at it, how is that MY problem? I could go on...but I'm bored.

funny how my mother and many other mothers in the 50's and 60's managed to keep us from starving yet were not hanging their tits out for everyone to see. mom even managed to get to the store without me dropping over dead from lack of breast milk. not sure if she had a breast pump or many of the other items available to todays mother but she managed. you know what i see today? a bunch of females who worry more about their wants and needs than those of the child. "i don't want you so here's an abortion! i can't raise you and have a career so here's daycare! i don't want to take the time to plan around your schedule so here's a tit in public!" call it what you want. whine about your rights and space. nothing changes the fact that it does not have to be done in public. it's a lack of morals, modesty, and care for the child. you just thought you were bored!

The women I've observed breast feeding in public didn't
really show anything. If anything it's a turn-off to American men's obsession with breasts, because it drives home the reality that , "tits are are for kid's silly rabbit"

wouldn't the IMMORAL thing be to make your kid wait to eat, or give them an unfamiliar nipple, or give them formula which is not as good for them as breast milk? I fail to see how feeding your child the food they are designed to digest could possibly be immoral...seriously- clarify that for me please.

MY GOD YOU'RE RIGHT!!!! i feel so abused, unloved, and violated because my mom must have made me wait to eat. and then there was the unfamiliar nipple! oh the humanity. hey look, a baby whale....go save it.

Place a blanket over a bottle-fed child’s face or to take a bottle-fed child in to a bathroom to feed them. Or better yet but put a blanket over your head or take your dinner in to the public bathroom and eat it and see how much you enjoy it. Your comfort is not worth the next generation being fat lazy and dumb. And your comfort is certainly not worth me suffering from breast or cervical cancer later in life… check the facts. Babies who are breastfeed are smarter and healthier than there bottle fed counter parts, they are less likely to be obese or have diabetes. Breastfeeding cuts a woman’s chance of developing breast cancer by as much as 25%. I can’t believe in a world such as this you people would rather me take my child in to a dirty public restroom to feed her or restrict her oxygen supply for your comfort. If it bothers you…DON’T LOOK… or better yet grow up… you see more flesh in a car ad than form a breastfeeding mom.

It’s NOT PRIVATE It's not "way overly-intimate" and its NOT SEXUAL. It's feeding... It’s not something that should be done at home... its something that should be done when the baby is hungry. It’s not something that should be done in a bathroom that’s icky ...its something that should be done where everybody else is at. The day an artificially fed baby is required to be whisked of to the bathroom to drink there bottle is the day that that Tell my moms to take there child in the bathroom... The day a bottle fed child is secluded to the upstairs bedroom so they can eat Ill tell my moms to take there child and do the same... The day a bottle fed baby is only allowed to be fed at home is the day I will tell my moms to stay locked in there houses for a year and feed at home only too... give it a rest...

Yeee Gawds...

I am female, a mixed liberal & conservative, but disgusted with the breast militants.


They're "attention-Ho"-ish, go from 0-to-psycho in 2 seconds, demand immediate self-gratifification & special rights and hysterically overly romanticize their "sacred" breasts & their little Jesus Christ #2's.

These Hysterics & Nutso behaviors hurt normal women in society & the work world.

These breast militants drag their squalors to the most inappropriate places too. Movies, Circus Soleil, fancy restaurants, on & on. I've watched some gal breastfeed her screecher at Circus Soleil, while her husband pawed & nuzzled her very sensuously. The discarded step-child sitting next to the menage a trois was totally ignored during the show. The baby never did quiet down, and they never left---much to the hatred of the people around them.

And nice restaurants---I really like seeing people change their diapers in the eating area, using crappy hygeine, or acting like they are at home with the noise & activities.

Note: public restrooms are hit with bleach 1-2 times a day, they're tested to be cleaner than restaurant ice machines, grocery carts, -or any other spots that aren't swabbed with bleach 1-2 times a day.

All my grandmas, aunties, & Mom were schoolteachers, they breastfed during maternity leave or as long as they could, they did it discretely, raised lots of kids, and none of us died waiting a few minutes. IE. they breastfed in the car beforehand, or private spots instead of whipping it out in public.

Also, with all these working schoolteacher mommas in the family, all the kids turned out above average.

The breast militants are going to make it hard for normal child-bearing age women to get hired or keep jobs. With all the demands, strutting, law quoting and lawsuit threat, why would any employer hire one? Yeah, I know it's the "law", but the employers will just get sneaky.

I think with the growth of offshoring, US families will desperately need 2+ incomes --even on a bare survival budget. I grew up hearing about the Great Depression--I think the hard times will be coming back.

Also, I think it's only fair that other people get to be naked as well--and their excretions/biohazard exchanges should be just as "sacred".

April 24, 2006

Yet Another Store Buckles to the Spoiled Angry White Chicks

PORTLAND, Ore. - An incident at a Portland Fred Meyer store has the company reassessing its policy on women who breastfeed their babies on store grounds.

Chris Musser, the mother of a 3-month-old infant, says she was sitting on a bench breastfeeding her newborn near the checkout line at the Gateway Fred Meyer store when the store director approached her and asked her to cover up (not leave) after receiving complaints from customers.

(she then went psycho over her right to be uncovered)
Musser says she complained to the company management about the incident and was contacted by a regional manager who backed the actions of the store director.

She said the incident caused her embarrassment and made her feel ashamed. (On her blog & other breastfeeding sites, she says she needs to be uncovered because the baby has a receding chin----which a normal breast should still be able to poke into--unless she has "inverted nipples".)

Under Oregon law, women can breastfeed in any public place, but the statute does not define what constitutes a 'public place.'

While Fred Meyer stores are private property, they do invite the public in.

Musser posted the incident on her blog and began to receive feedback from women across the country. (where they were threatening a nurse-in, and the other people should've been threatening a simultaneus Nude-In.)

So did Fred Meyer's management, in the form of dozens of emails. (only a few dozen & they buckle?)

Days ago, Melinda Merrill, spokesperson for the Fred Meyer chain, said they regretted the actions of the store manager and apologized to Musser.

Merrill added that the company will be updating store policy to allow mothers to breastfeed at will in the stores.

She also said store management teams will be given new training on the subject of breastfeeding.

PS. Of all the places in the store, she chose the most "in-your-face" part next to the busy checkout lines. These are huge-huge stores with plenty of discrete spots.


Most stores also state "No shoes, No shirt, No Service" and "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

Are you all serious? I have breastfed 3 children and have another on the way. By no means do I want to expose myself but when you are adjusting or readjusting to breastfeeding exposure happens. My goodness babies should not have to eat in the bathroom. If you should notice a woman breastfeeding her child do the right thing and look away don't ridicule her and her child. Ladies and Gentlemen, just keep in mind how you would want your daughter treated if she chose to breastfeed your grandchild.

WOW!!!!
William... I really don't know what to say to you... or where to start. Only if you had the opportunity to be side by side a nursing mother at least 72 hours... I would then ask, "are you sure we can only feed at home?"
A whole new world awaits you...

oh! One more thing, Did your mother secretly hide depression? You wouldn't know, would you... Today is not the 50's! So we won't live our lives like it is!! Will you?

I have seen a lot of ladies breastfeeding in the public even metro buses. Yesterday I was going from Marion Shopping Centre to Morphett Vale and a lady was breastfeeding her 4-month-old boy on the bus. I like seeing ladies breastfeeding their babies in the public, because is natual to breastfed in the public. Ladies you shouldn't force yourselves go ahead and breastfed your babies it isn't legal to bf in the public.

The discussion is an eye opener. I come from a country where breastfeeding is a common sight, and not taboo. In fact, not breastfeeding a new born would be considered bad. I grew up seeing women breastfeeding in public. It didn't traumatize me/upset me in the least bit. Its interesting to see the difference between there and here.
Personally as a new mom, I breastfeed in public, and until now was blissfully unaware that I could be offending someone. Ofcourse, knowing won't change my decision to breastfeed. Private breastfeeding is not possible unless you stay at home ALL the time. Being discrete is good, but sometime just not possible depending on the mood of the baby. And before I am accused of being a dumb foreigner, I am a PhD student in Mechanical Engineering. Whatever that's worth.
Also interesting was in many different posts, I saw issues of breastfeeding in a church. I would think there should be least stigma in that, since God knows all!