Donald Sensing discusses two essays about Public Displays of Patriotism (PDPs); the first by Trent Telenko, and a response by Sgt. Stryker. Trent disparages those who feel "oppressed" by PDPs, and then Stryker takes him to task, writing that many vets don't like ostentatious displays of patriotism either.
I mostly want to respond to Stryker by reminding him that those who have served in America's military probably have a much keener, more focused sense of patriotism than the rest of us will ever know; I can certainly understand why many PDPs may appear gaudy and exhibitionistic in their eyes. I imagine that a cop watching Law & Order or an astronaut visiting Space Camp feels similarly.
Still, if I may speak for all the patriotic Americans who haven't served in the military: we're trying our best. We want to honor you, we want to honor our country, and we generally try to do so as well as we know how. I'm sure that putting a flag up on my front porch seems childish to the men who draped the Stars & Stripes over Saddam's statue in Baghdad, but it's all I've got.
No Mike, flying our flag at our homes is never childish and is always appropriate. It makes a quiet proud statement.
I think Trent & The Sarge are into it over what is excessive PDP and where to draw the line.
Speaking as an American and a Vet., it is our flag, yours and mine and it's the symbol of the land we love. Long may it wave - at your home and mine.
I think the issue at hand is the attitude represented by excessive PDPs, and not the PDPs themselves. An excessive PDP might be tacky (I often think so), but it's the "America, love it or leave it" attitude that seems so often coupled with such displays that's the problem. (More accurately, the "love it or leave it" bumper stickers and t-shirts, not just the corresponding attitude.)
That particular false dichotomy is an attitude which doesn't really help anything. Either I support the country and all the actions and intentions of its government, without exception; or I have to leave. What? I'm not allowed to support the country for the most part, but also think that our government has made some mistakes and that those mistakes should be corrected?
Of course, this all stems from our central political problem. Namely, the fact that people feel committed to completely support one "side" or the other. Most people will either never say a bad word about the current president, or will say nothing BUT bad words about the current president. Why? Pride, I think. Admitting that you're wrong, or that you supported someone who then made a dumb mistake, is unpalatable for most people.
On a separate note, how about if the "recent comments" page shows only the last 10 comments in their entirety, but the last N comments (where N >= 20) summarized? E.g.:
- $thread_name at $HH:$MM by $poster_name
- (repeat N times)
I understand your points Matt, but I don't think that's exactly what I was responding to. Trent was partly espousing the opinion you mention, but I was mainly reacting to Stryker's discomfort over the ostentacity (?) of some displays.
I might be able to do something with the comments page like show summaries, let me look.
Ostentatiousness.
You said, "I'm sure that putting a flag up on my front porch seems childish to the men who draped the Stars & Stripes over Saddam's statue in Baghdad, but it's all I've got." I don't think that's what Stryker has a problem with. I think what he has a problem with are those who make excessive or ostentatious display.
Yeah, I wasn't talking about flying a flag at your house or simple things like that. I'm sure most people don't have a problem with that at all and those that do are statistically insignificant in the real world, though their presence online would lead you to believe otherwise.
"An excessive PDP might be tacky (I often think so), but it's the "America, love it or leave it" attitude that seems so often coupled with such displays that's the problem. (More accurately, the "love it or leave it" bumper stickers and t-shirts, not just the corresponding attitude.)"
That's a large part of it. The last paragraph in my post sums up my feelings on the matter.
A quick question: When did the meaning of "love America" become "support the actions and intentions of America's government without exception"? I don't think the one implies the other.
The bumper sticker I'd like to see would read "America -- if you hate it so much, then leave."
Ah, fair enough. Perhaps I took it the wrong way.
Kyle:
What I'm referring to is the attitude held by most of those who display such emblems as "America, love it or leave it." That attitude is basically, "if you criticize America for *any reason*, you're a Nazi Commie terrorist America-hater and I'd shoot you if it wasn't illegal." The phrase "love it or leave it" itself contributes to this kind of attitude because it presents a false dichotomy: Your only choices are to love it (without reservation) or get out.
A bumper sticker that says "America - if you hate it so much, then leave" is pointless, because people who actually *hate* America DON'T LIVE HERE. (The minor exception to this are resident terrorists smuggled in by other countries, and a handful of nihilists and other wackos.) But the people that the message of "love it or leave it" is directed toward are, unfortunately, ANYONE who criticizes the government. Some leftie says the current administration is corrupt? He must hate America! Get out, America-hater! *sigh*
To boil it down, the problem is that people are treating "I think our elected officials are idiots" and "I hate America" to be equivalent, which is clearly false. And, unfortunately, "people" in that sentence often corresponds to those who make ostentatious PDPs. So maybe it's not just the displays that veterans object to; maybe it's the attitude behind them.
Would America be America without tacky and ostentatious displays? We are the land of kitsch. So why is it any surprise that patriotism is done by some in just as poor taste as their mailbox, lawn decorations, or automotive paint job?
That isn't to say that a general improvement in american taste isn't to be wished for and worked towards. It's just that limited, discreet, tasteful displays of *anything* have never been a universal trend anywhere and the social controls to limit other people's behavior are *by design* lower in the US than in about any other country in the world. It's a feature, not a bug.
I'm afraid the struggle will by sysiphean in nature but for those who think it's worth the pain, good luck.
Just because it's a feature, doesn't mean it's necessary, useful, or contributes to the overall health of the "product" (so to speak). After all, Clippy was a "feature" of Microsoft Office, but very very few people believed he was a positive feature.